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“Sonia is so lovely…” February 21, 2007

Posted by Rasheed Eldin in Responses.

…is how I should begin if I don’t want to be “mean”.

A Case Study in Ignorance

This lady (Sonia/Afroz) has commented here quite a few times before, and I have done my best to answer her questions as well as refuting the more nonsensical of her points. Here’s a compilation of the relevant posts, specifically linked to her first comment under each:
[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] and more recently [7] [8] [9].

Now she has posted “Eye on Backbiting Muslims” (ingenious!), which is at the same standard as her comments here, so presumably my responding will do no good for her, just as she remained confused despite my attempts to inform her (see links compilation above).

Nevertheless, for her cheerleaders, or at least the one who seemed reasonable a while ago, I offer the following points in response.

Sonia: “boy are they a bunch of whiners”
Sunny: “Whiners is an understatement! They’re a bunch of chumps. The kind of people who sit around in their little gang gossiping and bitching about others. Like old aunties.”

Excuse me? Have some respect for the fact that we are writing in detail on a subject barely touched by anyone else. You may not like our perspective, but try engaging intellectually instead of calling us names. This abuse coming from Sunny Hundal is particularly rich, since he’s sitting at a blog bitching about us. Does he do anything else?

Sonia: “I mean they’re pleased some one got fired for ‘inappropriate’ views on sexual orientation.”

Hmm, who said we’re pleased? I didn’t. What I did was critique a snapshot of her views with five points of note. Then I engaged in discussion with a commenter who disagreed with me respectfully. Maybe Sonia could learn something from our methods.

Sonia: “their main aim in life seems to be self-denial (good for you – if that’s what you want) and trying to enforce the same on everyone else.”

When did writing become enforcing? We put forward a position (detailed and nuanced) based on the Islamic sources, namely the Qur’an and the Sunnah, based on the analysis of reputed scholars. If you disagree, bring your arguments, and we’ll go from there. But somehow I don’t think you have anything to say except “I’m confused“. And still you are.

Sonia: “should anyone try to reconcile their religion and their sexual orientation – oh dear! – woe betide them – the eye of eye on gay muslims will be on them, pouring their wrath on them for daring to have a personal individual interpretation of religious beliefs. ooh dearie me..”

Pointing out stupidity, dishonesty and weakness of arguments is not wrath. When people are sincere, we meet them in kindness. As for the leaders of sin and corruption, they deserve to be met with at least a part of the scorn they pour upon Islam’s teachings.

Sonia: “really it’s people like this lot that make dogma what it is. they seem to forget every person has agency, and the right to individual interpretation, seeing as they’re the ones who’re accountable for their own actions.”

Er, no, that’s a point that we have made again and again. Everyone’s accountable, so we advise people to live in the right way so as not to be deserving of punishment from the Almighty.

Sid: “They’re a bunch of self-loathing homophobes who have come out of the closet and then, quick as you like, ran back in again and decided to be more reactionary than ever.”

Of course, Sid, not only are your assumptions about our pasts or presents based on nothing at all, you will find it very hard to prove that we are “more reactionary” than the generality of Muslims. Go on, I’ll be most interested in your analysis. Otherwise, feel free to call us more names.

Sid: “I suppose they think the closet is a safe place to take pot shots at gay muslims who have decided to be both. Cretins.”

Do you say we are not entitled to our opinions? Please make clear what you want to say to:
(a) Religious Muslims who believe that homosexual acts are prohibited (hardly a minority view!!).
(b) Those whom you’d call gay Muslims, but decide not to define themselves according to your understanding.

Funny how all these lovely notions of freedom disappear when they’re less convenient.


1. Leighton Cooke - February 21, 2007

We seem to live in an age of intolerance on both sides. Islam is being demonised in the west. The right to freedom of speech should be tempered with responsibility. Absolutist views of any kind are anathema. What is wrong with being gay? What is wrong with being a Muslim? The whole issue is nonsense and wasted hot air. What we should be asking is why greed destroys people as in Iraq. Religion and sexual orientation are personal matters. The human animal is a tribal species and millions of lives have been lost in the name of religion. I know many decent Muslims who are in no way fanatical, so why all the hate an intolerance? Here in Holland right-wing MP Geert Wilders said recently that Muslims would have to give up much of the Koran if they wanted to live here. This kind of backlash is growing all over Europe. If we are not careful it will be just like the Nazis again.

2. Leighton Cooke - February 21, 2007

The shape of things to come?
Wilders said: “If Mohammed lived here today, I would propose he be tarred and feathered as an extremist and driven out of the country.” He also stated: “Everything we are proud of, we are selling to the devil. Former head of the Mossad Efraim Halevy says that World War III has begun. I would not use those words, but it`s true.”

3. DrM - February 22, 2007

Well done…Sunny was always a fecal fascist….

4. Rasheed Eldin - February 22, 2007

Leighton- we don’t say there’s something wrong with “being gay”, because in our interpretation, this is a matter of personal feelings (which are not to be deemed sinful) versus prohibited actions, judged by understanding of divine revelation. Our position is quite clear, but we steer clear of other people’s forms of “hate”, maybe falling into the expression of “love the sinner hate the sin”. We don’t hate people for what they feel, or even for falling into sins, but we do hate those who promote immorality and mislead others, especially when it comes to twisting the teachings of the religion.

5. Rasheed Eldin - February 22, 2007

Meanwhile, Sonia has shown how much of a liar she is by claiming at her blog: “the comments i post seem to get deleted all the time! very suspicious.”

That is simply untrue. Look at my post above for how many useless comments she has made here, yet we approved and responded to them.

6. sonia - March 1, 2007

thanks for having my name up in lights 🙂

7. sonia - March 1, 2007

Yes i’ve had a look around and am pleased to now see my comments – you’ve obviously got some lag on your comments – they didn’t appear immediately.

you do take yourself very seriously don’t you. don’t you ever have any fun?

8. Rasheed Eldin - March 1, 2007

Comments are moderated but always approved unless obscene (such as the “Anonymous Muslim” who just left 2 comments saying that “all homosexuals are kaafirs”. Read our articles buddy!)

Fun… what do you want me to do, a dance? Stop being silly.

9. fugstar - March 27, 2007

blogs are bitchy places. Muslims must have better akhlaq and avoid blogslip.


10. sonia - June 15, 2009

Yes fugstar – that goes for you too!

11. Rasheed Eldin - July 30, 2009

The pathetic thing is that Sonia has never bothered to reply to my detailed refutation of her smears against us. Ah well, it’s not as though I expected it, nor do I need it.

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