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Imam Backs Shariah Shock! October 22, 2006

Posted by Rasheed Eldin in Homosexualists, Media, Shari'ah.
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From an OutRage press release:

Killing gays is OK, says Muslim Imam

Manchester Imam defends execution of gay people
20 October 2006

Manchester’s leading Imam has confirmed that he thinks the execution of sexually active gay men is justified. Mr. Arshad Misbahi, who is based at the Manchester Central Mosque, confirmed his views in a conversation to Dr John Casson, a local psychotherapist.

Dr Casson said: “I asked him if the execution of gay Muslims in Iran and Iraq was an acceptable punishment in Sharia law, or the result of culture, not religion. He told me that in a true Islamic state, such punishments were part of Islam: if the person had had a trial, at which four witnesses testified that they had seen the actual homosexual acts.”

“I asked him what would be the British Muslim view? He repeated that in an Islamic state these punishments were justified. They might result in the deaths of thousands but if this deterred millions from having sex, and spreading disease, then it was worthwhile to protect the wider community.”

“I checked again that this was not a matter of tradition, culture or local prejudice. ‘No,’ he said, ‘It is part of the central tenets of Islam: that sex outside marriage is forbidden; this is stated in the Koran and the prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) had stated that these punishments were due to such behaviours.'”

“He told me that no Muslim would have spoken to him as I had done – they would have been too afraid, ashamed or inhibited: he admired my courage and openness.”

Commenting on Imam Arshad Misbahi’s views, Dr John Casson said:

“I support the human rights of all people peacefully to practice their religion, including the right of Muslim women to wear the veil if they choose. Equally gay men and women must enjoy the right to be themselves without the fear of being beaten, killed or condemned by homophobic religious people. These condemnatory attitudes have an adverse psychological impact on lesbians and gay men, especially lesbian and gay Muslims.”

Gay and human rights campaigner, Peter Tatchell, of the gay rights group OutRage!, added: “It is disturbing that some British imams are endorsing the execution of gay and lesbian Muslims.

“Imam Arshad Misbahi’s homophobic attitudes give comfort and succour to queer-bashers. They encourage conflict and disharmony between Manchester’s large gay and Muslim communities.

“Muslim and gay people know the pain of prejudice and discrimination. We should be working together to challenge homophobia and Islamophobia. I hope liberal Muslims will speak out in defence of the human rights of lesbians and gay men,” said Mr Tatchell.

Notes to editors

  • In July 2005, two gay teenagers, Mahmoud Asgari, aged 16, and Ayaz Marhoni, 18, were executed in Mashhad, Iran. They had been kept in prison for 14 months and given 228 lashes. They are two of hundreds, possibly thousands, of gay people who have been flogged, jailed, tortured and executed in Iran.
  • Dr John Casson has been a therapist in adult mental health for over 21 years, 11 of which have been in the British NHS. He is now in private practice and trains psychodramatists in the Northern School of Psychodrama. His doctoral research (1996-2002) was with people who hear voices (auditory hallucinations).
  • The meeting between Mr. Arshad Misbahi and Dr John Casson took place on Wednesday 11th October 2006 at the Central Mosque, Upper Park Road, Victoria Park, Manchester. “My motivation for this meeting was to encourage a dialogue on lesbian and gay issues with a representative of the Muslim community,” said Dr Casson.

PinkNews adds:

George Broadhead, secretary of the Gay and Lesbian Humanist Association, said he was appalled by these comments.“Given the explicit condemnation of homosexual practices and the punishments meted out to their perpetrators in Islamic holy texts, it is hardly surprising. GALHA has written to Manchester City Council asking it to publicly condemn this outrageous and dangerous expression of homophobia.”

Why is this news? Nothing has actually happened. OutRage just wants to highlight more Muslim “homophobia” – but they have actually shot themselves in the foot, because the more random Imams they interrogate, the more they contradict their claim to support “moderates” and oppose only extremists. The same grounds on which they called for Dr. Yusuf al-Qaradawi’s exclusion from the UK could be used to justify getting rid of British Muslims in general!

We’ve documented the involvement of OutRage and Peter Tatchell in the opposition to Sheikh Qaradawi’s visit previously. The statement released by the StraightWay Foundation at that time is relevant also to this case, so do have a look:

“Statement on Homosexualist Campaign Against Muslim Scholar” (17/11/04)

Excerpts:

The Question of Punishment

Islam prescribes punishments to protect society; these are applied only in the context of a state based (not superficially) on the Shari’ah. They include strict measures against fornication and adultery. Sodomy is somewhat analogous; hence the head of the Islamic state may opt for punishment against people who commit sodomy, based on the precedent of the Prophet’s companions. However, the lack of textual evidence for a worldly punishment has caused disagreement, with most scholars agreeing that such should be applied. They differ as to its exact nature, with many stating that the death penalty should be applied; others have suggested alternatives. 

[…]

Muslims around the world have had little chance for internal debate over the issue of homosexuality, as they have faced more pressing issues related to basic freedoms and national integrities. Yet British and other Western Muslims should now engage in proper dialogue, involving ‘gay Muslims’ and the wider society, in order to maintain harmonious integration without compromising Islamic faith and life. 

Certainly Islam does not call for British Muslims to attack ‘homosexuals’, any more than it calls for them to persecute people who have sex before marriage, or who wish to! Rather, we have a message to share; and we will stand firm in our view that Islam is a way of life designed for the well-being of the individual and the whole society.

For more details about the question of punishment, you can take a look at the following:

Fatwa from IslamOnline

MEMRI & Qaradawi: the main point

 

UPDATE: Here’s what I wrote to John Casson and Peter Tatchell in response to their posts at the Imaan Forum:

Dr. Casson: I can believe your heart was in the right place, but what you need to ponder on is the tension between your keenness that people can observe religious commandments like headscarves, and that there is something wrong with believing in the teachings regarding homosexuality. I don’t know much about this Imam (I saw him on Shariah TV and wasn’t impressed) – but what he said to you, as you reported it, seems perfectly reasonable as far as scriptual interpretation and Islamic jurisprudence is concerned. You can see my blog for further discussion on that.

Peter Tatchell: I’m not going to involve myself in a debate on the respective merits of OutRage and Imaan, as I see precious little merit in either. But your recent campaigns in particular certainly reek of something beyond “homosexual terrorism”, as one paper put it so long ago.

To keep myself brief, I would note only that your attacks on (and I quote) “right-wing Islamists”, “fundamentalists”, “the barbarism of Sharia law”, “Islamo-fascism”, “Islamist clerical fascism” etc… are convenient ways for you to claim you are not against us for the religion we follow.

Your attempts to prove support for “liberal, progressive Muslims” are pathetic; case in point: http://www.petertatchell.net/religion/pthrf2006.htm – They’re pathetic because you will only be satisfied with Muslims who have nothing to do with Islam. So how will you define “Muslim”? I’m genuinely interested to know.

Your obsession with Sheikh Qaradawi (just one scholar, albeit a prominent one, among so many thousands who say much the same thing on homosexuality) and attempts to undermine the MCB (hardly perfect, but surely a better attempt at representation than your so-called “Sheikh Dr. Muhammad Nobody”) just reveal your intentions for what they are – anything but sincere. I have written quite a few posts commenting on your antics, and here you can find them: https://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/?s=tatchell

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Comments»

1. Rasheed Eldin - October 22, 2006

By the way, on the possible political implications, do check out the links I am adding from time to time at this post:

https://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/2006/07/28/gay-rags-support-war-agenda/

2. Rasheed Eldin - October 23, 2006

Interesting… UK Gay News included, at the bottom of their regurgutation of this “story”, a link to Imaan.

But on the Imaan e-group, it was Faisal Alam (Al-Fatiha USA) who forwarded the OutRage press release. The Imaan Chair, Farzana, responded:

“I don’t know if you are aware but the UK is experiencing a wave of anti Muslim hysteria at the moment. […] As the current Chair of Imaan, I do not want to further promote anti Muslim feeling by giving views by Outrage, a group with a history of Islamaphobia, a platform.

Good on you girl! This lends weight to the idea that we have considered before that Imaan does not share all the unsavoury aspects of its American mother organisation. It’s encouraging to see LGBT campaigners who don’t judge everything by “Is it good for the gays?”.

More comments and discussion (you can take part) at their open forum:
http://imaanlondon.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=sexuality&action=display&thread=1161542623

3. Rasheed Eldin - October 23, 2006

Ubaid, the Imaan secretary whose views we have discussed several times before, has chipped in with this:

“Yes he has a right to speech but a comment that will fuel attacks on gays muslims or non-Muslims such comments need to be stopped. I do not want to hear them and I do not want such people being allowed to voice such opinions that dont do any good. If we allow such people to speak then we should also allow the BNP and other prejudice groups to hold platforms to promote their comments because at the end of the day ‘even if I may disagree with’ it. No, we need to stand up against homophobia internally and not to misunderstand this as Islamaphobic.”

Why should Misbahi’s responses to questions put to him about Islamic scriptural law be construed as “homophobic”, and why silence a scholar at all? There was no public declaration, no campaign launch, just a discussion where an Imam stated what is obvious to all but a few who wish otherwise.

In fact, Misbahi did well to underline succinctly that punishment can only be considered if all the following apply:

(1) The societal context is application of God’s Law.
(2) What is being judged is actual homosexual intercourse, not identity, desire or a minor action.
(3) Due process is applied: and this process in Shari’ah has always (when properly used) dramatically limited the number of people punished, because witnessing is such an unlikely matter.

So Ubaid, what is beyond your rhetoric about “standing up” to such views? Do you have anything scholarly to bring to the table, or just “We’re here, we’re queer”?

4. Rasheed Eldin - October 25, 2006

Peter Tatchell and Dr. Casson have replied to concerns raised at the Imaan forum. I’ve written a brief reply. Do check it out!

http://imaanlondon.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=sexuality&action=display&thread=1161542623

5. Rasheed Eldin - October 26, 2006

Fantastic replies (link just above) to Tatchell & Casson from various Imaan members and supporters. Make sure you go onto Page 2 as well.

Gay.com has a comment from Mr Dialogue himself:

===================
Adnan Ali, founder of the British branch of al-Fatiha,
an organization for gay and lesbian Muslims, told
Gay.com that “a person with such an obsession about
execution of human beings is not even entitled to be
addressed as Imam.”

“Islam is a very tolerant religion and celebrates the
human diversity in its core message,” Ali said.

“The holy book Qur’an does not mention anywhere about
the execution or killing of human beings on te basis
of their sexuality. What surprises is this obsession
of the Islamic clerics to killing and execution. Why?
What about dialogue? Discussion?

“Arshad Misbahi’s comparison of same-sex relation to
adultery is nothing but ignorant and utterly
irresponsible rhetoric, manifesting the wrong
teachings of Islam. The media should . . . not take it
for granted as the general view of the Muslim
community all over.”
http://www.gay.com/news/article.html?2006/10/23/3
===================

What obsession? Adnan says that the Qur’an doesn’t advocate the death penalty for sodomy: but has he heard of the Sunnah? Since when has the Qur’an been the only source for Islamic law? And of course the Qur’an itself legislates the death penalty for a few crimes, so complaining about “obsession” is wide of the mark.

Sorry Adnan, but Misbahi’s comments were in line with the mainstream scholarly view accepted by Muslims all over the world and throughout our history, and you’d be hard pressed to prove otherwise. But do try if you wish! Start by explaining why a straighforward analogy between adultery/fornication and homosexual acts is “ignorant…rhetoric”, basing your arguments on the Islamic sources.

6. Rasheed Eldin - November 2, 2006

A post by “GayJihadi”, with whom I share some political views, but not sure how our views about sexuality compare as yet! Do take a look:

http://gayjihadi.blogspot.com/2006/10/pink-islamophobia.html

7. lopakhin - November 6, 2006

Word to the wise though – if you do go over to Gay Jihadi’s site, don’t bother trying to leave a dissenting or even mildly critical comment – he doesn’t allow them to go up.

8. Rasheed Eldin - November 6, 2006

Don’t take it personally: he hasn’t approved any comments at all. Perhaps he doesn’t know how?

9. GayJihadi - November 17, 2006

Salaams.

Hello guys. Have fathomed out how to approve the comments!

Will respond to the comments. Sorry about the delay. Work has been really hectic.

Wa-Salaam.

10. Rasheed Eldin - December 6, 2006

Here’s another look at the controversy, this time at Islamophobia Watch. We quote them quite often, but I get the impression they don’t want to acknowledge that we exist. Their ideology is AGAINST Islamophobia, but maybe we are too AGAINST homosexuality for their liking. Oh well.

http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/islamophobia-watch/2006/11/30/gay-muslims-clash-with-tatchell.html

11. kelly - March 25, 2009

I am not gay nor am I Muslim, but I don’t understand the surprise here. Honestly, I am not trying to stir the pot, but why ARE you still Muslim? Let me explain why I ask this. The Koran only talks about homosexuality once, but it’s not a positive statement. More can probably be found in the Hadith, and I will find this out later (bukhari specifically) and post it. But, I’m anti-Sharia, anti political Islam and anti-Islamic ideology. It’s very intolerant– not just with gays, but with anyone who’s not Muslim. It’s not a loving religion like Christianity for instance. And, no, I’m not a Christian either.

The thing is, Muhammed advocated and encouraged and even ordered murder, enslavement, dhimmitude, beheadings, stonings, cutting off the limbs of thieves (no matter if they’re hungry and even 8 years old). He also advocated marriage with 6 year olds, consummation at 9 years old and polygamy.

Why would you expect anyone who follows the path of Muhammed to behave any differently than those who condemn homosexuality. Muhammed was kind to Muslims. As a Muslim, you probably view Islam in this way. But, I’m a kafir. And, I have a kafir-centric view. In my case, he advocated war (dar al Harb) until the whole world submits to Islam (dar al Islam) or lives in dhimmitude under Islamic rule, sharia.

So, I don’t understand why you’d stay Muslim. I have the same problem, by the way, with Catholics who disagree with everything the pope says, all the Catholic history yet still want to be Catholic. They’re just not. The doctrine says one thing and they want some modified version of it. . . picking and choosing.

You seem to be the same way. Why would you want to follow a man who advocated all this death, destruction, rape, enslavement, pedophilia, etc.? In Islam, Muhammed is considered the ideal, but in the Western world– to those who understand the entire Islamic doctrine– he’s the antithesis of all that the West considers good. We are a live and let live society. He advocated a strictly adherent version of Islam and all the jihad that goes on today is directly due to his own orders.

I just don’t understand the value of remaining in a religion that forbids homosexuality under the threat of death. I know homosexuality is also considered wrong in religious Judaism and Christianity, but you don’t have to fear for your life in judeo=christian societies! The absolute worst thing that MAY happen is that you might be shunned, but even that is doubtful these days. You’re most likely accepted and our culture promotes acceptance.

12. Rasheed Eldin - March 30, 2009

Dear Kelly,

You have mentioned many issues here together, which would require quite lengthy responses individually. I’d recommend you make use of other good sites, such as http://www.readingislam.com or another I saw recently: http://www.rasoulallah.net/fl_list_en.asp?lang=ar&folder_id=29&parent_id=29

I would briefly remark that choosing a religion should be based on its claims to truth, focusing mainly on matters of doctrine, rather than assessing it in a merely political way or according to the societal fashions of the day. You’ve clarified you’re not gay, but just suppose that you were: would you seek a religion (or non-religious system) just because it allows you to live according to your desires? Many people do, but for me that is the antithesis of sincerity towards God.

13. kendra - March 30, 2009

Rasheed,
You make a very good point and, if you truly believe that Islam is the truth, then I understand why you remain Muslim.

However, I guess my question SHOULD be, WHY do you think Islam is the truth? I would assume, as a gay male (not me, you!), you have been forced to be in the position of questioning your doctrine whereas, if you were straight, you may not have chosen to do so.

Once you are put in this position of questioning the authenticity or the likelihood of Islam’s “truth”, wouldn’t you come to the conclusion that it is, in fact, likely to NOT be true rather than true?

I do not think that one should live just according to our desires. We should strive to live according to moral code that makes sense to us, is fair to most, is just, and logical. Herein is the problem with Islam, I believe. And, I have hit those sites you’ve mentioned and I’ve studied Islamic doctrine for many years. Not just the Koran, but the Hadith, and the Sira as well. As a matter of fact, I’m now a research assistant and editor in this field and am working on the Bukhari hadith– making it much more accessible for all by consolidating (not omitting) passages so that there are no repeated sections. As a Muslim, you may have a problem with this, but I won’t be changing any data– just reducing it so that the task of reading it isn’t so daunting (There are many volumes, books, and passages– many of these passages repeat themselves).

Anyways, my point is, is that Islam is the antithesis of peace. Muhammed was a warlord, not a peaceful man. I’m just wondering how WHY you think that Islam is the truth? Believe me, this troubles me to no end, since the TRUTH of the doctrine is that Muhammed was all the things I mentioned in my last post. I realize we can’t profess to know god, but with everything in your heart, how can you honestly truly believe that God would punish gays, hungry children, raped women, etc.? How can you believe that God would allow a man to marry a six year old girl and consummate the marriage at nine and advocate it or at least permit it for all men?

I don’t underatand. Yes, I might be challenging you, but the truth is I have such a hard time with this that I am literally upset when I think about it.

When Muhammed was in Mecca, he was peaceful but only had 150 followers. When he got thrown out of Mecca and went to Medina, he literally became a warlord. As a matter of fact, for the last nine years of his life, he was involved in an act of jihad/violence every six weeks on the average. He advocated pedophilia, stoning, beheading, raping, pillaging, amputations, etc. I just don’t understand how IF YOU”RE A CRITICAL THINKER, this proves that the doctrine is truthful.

I’m going to tell you something and I SWEAR that I am not telling you this to get a rise out of you or challenge you. I have started believing that Islam is a creation of the anti-Christ and I”M NOT EVEN A CHRISTIAN! lol. If, however, I was going to convert and needed proof of the existence of God somewhere, I would use the existence of Islam and how I believe it is incredibly evil and created by the opposite of Good to prove the existence of God. Does this make sense? I guess what I’m trying to say is that the proof of a religion such as Islam– one that advocates all the things I just mentioned– and the fact that Islam has so many adherents and is growing on a daily basis– where conversion by the sword is mandated proves to me the existence of an anti-Christ even more than it proves to me the existence of God. I would believe in God by the fact that there is such accepted evil, namely Islam’s doctrine. There is more hatred statistically in the Koran than there is in Mein Kampf.

Sometimes, I find that others wind up bringing up biblical history– the fact that the Bible also advocated death at times. To me, this is a false comparison, because the bible limited all warfare to specific enemies at a specific time in a specific place. Never were the Hebrews told to kill all until the entire world is dar al Judaism or dar al Christianity. No, they were told to kill a specific enemy and then stop. In Islam, you are told you are in the HOuse of War or dar al Harb until the entire world is under Islamic rule or dar al Islam, the House of Peace or Submission.

The trouble here is that if you believe all this wholeheartedly– and I agree that most Muslims do– than we are all destined to live under Shari’a law one day unless Westerners get it together and understand that our freedoms are actually under threat.

But, why do you believe this more than another religion? Sure, you were indoctrinated from day one, but as an adult, can’t you try to think outside the box and question the idea that maybe what you were taught was wrong? Does it make sense to you that gays who act upon their preferred partner choice should be killed? That women or men who commit a cardinal sin should be sentenced to death? That a rape victim is actually thought of as an adulterer? Does it make sense, when you think about it, that children’s arms should be cut off if they are hungry and steal an apple? Or that a six year old child can be ordered to wed a 60 year old man as his first, second, third or fourth wife? that you have rules for wiping yourselves after you use the bathroom, that your legs may not be crossed in certain positions, that women are told what they may or may not do with superfluous body hair, that women’s testimony is half that of a man’s? Does any of this make sense?

That Jews and Christians and any non-Muslims are destined to death or dhimmitude just for finding fault in this doctrine that is the opposite of Good?

Muhammed forced so many to convert by the sword as did his followers after Muhammed died. Just because we THINK something is true doesn’t mean t hat it automatically IS true. Our ancestors dogmatically believed the world was flat. They were wrong. Our ancestors believed the sun revolved around the earth. They were wrong. Many m any many people have and had faith in other belief systems other than Islam and all of them had faith as strongly as you believe Muhammed was the prophet. What makes you convinced (logically, not just with your feelings) that your religion is the right one?

Furthermore, I have nothing against the religion of Islam. I have everything against the political system of Islam or Sharia. I don’t care if you believe in Allah and that Muhammed was the prophet .I don’t care if my neighbors are buddhists and if my other neighbors are Christians or Jews. I ONLY care about the political system of law that they adhere to, and if that political system advocates and MANDATES the death and destruction of all who are different from them and that they support that as TRUTH well, then, then I have a problem with it. Wouldn’t you– if I believed it was mandated by God to kill you or enslave you?

Muslims keep saying how peaceful Islam is. Well, it’s obviously not. But, even if you’ve lived in relative peace, you must admit that it’s only peaceful towards other Muslims. It is not peaceful towards Kafirs and, since I am and will remain a Kafir, this is what is important to me. You could say that I have a kafir-centric view of Islam since this is all that is important to me about Islam– how Muslims or Islam TREATS me and those I love and those I don’t love but who I still believe deserve to live freely.

In Judeo-christian, or western culture, morality means enhancing life. Life is the most important thing– that is, everythign that tends to promote or enhance life is considered good or MORAL, while anything that tends to inhibit or impede life is considered bad or immoral. (Yes, we sometimes disagree on what constitutes life, but it is still considered the most important thing).

Morality in Islam means that Islam is the most important thing. That is, everything that tends to promote, enhance, or further ISLAM is considered good or Moral,while anything that tends to inhibit or impede life is considered bad or immoral.

What a difference. Furthermore, ISlam is the ONLY political system that advocates dual ethics. That is, it is permissible to treat non-Muslims completely differently than other Muslims. Only other Muslims are deserving of fairness or just treatment. Also, it is the only political system that advocates Taquiyya– lying to further Islam– whenever desired. No other religion or political system is okay with this morally except for Islam.

Well, thanks for reading. Gotta go for now.

14. Rasheed Eldin - April 1, 2009

Kelly/Kendra, I thought hard before approving that comment, and won’t do likewise if you post yet another long compilation of points that don’t have much relevance to this blog discussion. I appreciate that you are expressing your thoughts and want answers, but this is not the place and I have directed you to more appropriate sites to ask your questions.

However, I hope you will not mind me saying that you are, despite what you may think, spectacularly misinformed about Islam! So many of the issues you’ve raised have been answered comprehensively by Muslim (and non-Muslim) scholars, and the sites I mentioned contain much of that. At the very least, you should be well acquainted with those counter-arguments, then if you persist on your hostile opinions of Islam, at least they should be more nuanced than they are now.

Some of the things you have mentioned (e.g. taqiyyah) are plain nonsense. You have misrepresented clear history and misinterpreted many aspects of Islam. I hope you find the answers you seek, but the first step is humility.

15. kendra - April 1, 2009

Rasheed, I understand your reluctance to approve the comment. Thank you for doing so but I wouldn’t have been offended if you hadn’t.

Can you please tell me exactly what I said that is false? Taquiyya is NOT false, by the way. However, what did I say about Muhammed that is completely incorrect? He did advocate all the things I said and all jihad that is perpetrated is due to religious adherents following the doctrine as closely as possible. They aren’t “misinterpreting” it. They are choosing to interpret it as closely as possible.

I’m so sorry you are offended. That was not my intention. I really am sorry. I just don’t understand and I still think my comments are completely relevant and based on fact. In fact, as much as I appreciate your response to me, I definitely see that I offended you and that you are responding to the offense I caused and your belief that I lack humility rather than the main points of the arguments I made referring to Muhammed and Islamic doctrine and the life of Muhammed. I just don’t see how Muhammed can be considered the ideal and perfect person when he advocated and, in fact, mandated all the things I mentioned and more.

When something like 40% of Muslim youth want Sharia brought in to the UK, you have to admit that’s a large amount of people. Those people also have advocated the killing of innocents in certain circumstances. Under sharia law, you’d be dead and I’d be dead or, if left alive, a dhimmi.

The thing is, I read all day long. Doctrine, articles, etc. This is what I do. So, nothing I am saying here is erroneous. I mean, I’m stating facts, not opinion. I know that I’ve upset you and I truly apologize, but I still am wondering why you personally are Muslim in light of these facts about Muhammed that are clearly spelled out in the Koran, Hadith and Sira and have absolutely nothing to do with my opinion.

16. Yousef - April 4, 2009

I think my question to Kendra is…if you so strongly believe that Islam is so wrong then why have you dedicated your academic life to “presenting the Bokhari hadith”…by the way, what are your sources when studying? Have you ever read the Arabic text?

17. Rasheed Eldin - April 14, 2009

Kendra, sorry but you are really babbling now. My comment was nothing to do with being offended, and was not an emotional response at all. Stating over and over again that something is FACT does not make it so. You clearly don’t want to be educated, and you’ve ignored my repeated insistence that this blog is not for discussing all the many matters you have brought up. If you have a proper, on-topic question, I may answer it, God willing. Otherwise, go your way in peace.

18. Hassan - June 13, 2011

“However, the lack of textual evidence for a worldly punishment has caused disagreement…”

I disagree here.There is textual evidence in the Quran concerning homosexuality:

1)Proof in a single verse that homosexuality is forbidden;
“Successful are the believers…who guard their private parts, save from their wives or the slaves that their right hands possess (female slaves), for then they are not blameworthy, but whoso craveth beyond that, such are the transgressors” (23:5)

2)PUNISHMENT for homosexual acts among men;
“If two among you (men) commit it (fornication) punish them both.If they repent and mend their ways leave them both”.(4:16)
In light of ahadith and by extrapolation I believe that the implications of this verse are the same for women engaged in lesbian acts.
C’est finis

The matter is ENDED.What more is there to know,save for the disbelievers who twist what is plain and say “We hear and disobey” (4:46) when they do not like what is made clear?

19. Hassan - June 13, 2011

I should mention here that I base my views on this Quranic interpretation :

http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Maariful%20Quran/English-MaarifulQuran-MuftiShafiUsmaniRA-Vol-2-Page-341-395.pdf
Page 360

My new rule of thumb regarding people who go into deliberate and who CHOOSE to be ignorant when then truth has been made clear (helped me deal with the ‘Quranists’ who are a very confused bunch I must admit!):

So be patient, for God’s promise is true, and do not be dissuaded by those who do not have certainty.(30:60)

I should also mention that I follow this Quranic ayat to the letter and reject the view that people indulging in homosexuality are to be killed: “If two among you (men) commit it (fornication) punish them both.If they repent and mend their ways leave them both”.(4:16)
(how can we “…leave them both” after they’ve repented if we’ve killed them?! =P )

Peace


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